SolidWorks V6 News
Here’s something you might not hear every where. A reliable source sent this information to me, and asked not to be named.
According to the source, the version of SolidWorks V6 shown at SWW2010 has been scrapped. There is no word from the source on if it will be cloud based, local, or both, but it is based on CGM and Catia V6.
The only bit that’s really new here is that the old version was scrapped. This seems to explain why it is taking so long to develop it, with the need to do the work twice. It’s good to know that there are some standards in place, that there is indeed maybe a limit to how bad the software can be and still be shipped to customers.The fact that they scrapped it means that maybe they are looking at their product critically, which can only be good news. It doesn’t ensure that the outcome will make anyone happy, but it means they have some sort of standards.
We’ve heard some other things too, that will help fill in the gaps. We’ve heard that this SolidWorks V6, or more accurately Catia Lite will be made from little modular bits of Catia. We’ve heard that this is all connected through Enovia (platform, database, file management, etc…) And we’ve heard one little bit of info from an older source that sheds some hope on the situation:
“The second aspect of V6 is that we have invested a lot to create an architecture that can be run locally or online.” Bernard Charles
This means that there is at least the possibility for them to do the right thing (offer a local version). It doesn’t mean that they will do the right thing. In fact, based on history, I would expect them to offer the local version, but make it inaccessible. So Catia Lite might be available on your local network, or even local machine, but doing that might require an additional $100k investment in infrastructure and maybe double that in consulting.
One of the things that hasn’t been discussed is Mr. Bassi. Mr. Bassi has been linked to such CAD software as ImpactXoft and think3. Neither of which were big commercial successes, exist today, or were even what you’d call mainstream. RIWEBB, his last venture before joining SolidWorks, had this on their website before it was taken down:
So while the source earlier didn’t confirm or deny that Catia Lite will be cloud based, Bassi’s most recent work has included “web enabled solutions”. It wouldn’t be a stretch to assume that would be part of why he was selected.
I only got to play with ImpactXoft a little bit when they tried to recruit a SW reseller I was working at to sell the software, probably in 2002 or 2003. It did some cool stuff, like functional modeling, which you can still find demonstrated on YouTube. Some current SW features use this, like the plastics features for mounting boss, and some others. I think it’s a no brainer to expect functional modeling in Catia Lite. You can also expect history-based modeling to go away, according to public statements.
[pullquote]
One key to improving performance is to rid ourselves of the history-based design paradigm
– Gian Paolo Bassi on Graphic Speak Blog
[/pullquote]
SolidWorks built its reputation by making software that engineers could relate to and use. I fear they are throwing it all away on some crazy vision of “3D Experience”, spending time modeling CAD software after games, phones, and fads rather than just continuing to make stuff that people like and use. There is such a thing as updating the software without throwing away your current success. Swapping out SolidWorks for a Catia-like stranger … I’m gonna go out on a limb and say trying to make SW users buy this is gonna be a tough sell.
I “fell” into SW after 20 or so years with Autocad, and have a love affair. I use it for both conceiving and presenting bathrooms.
Through experience, I can shoot up a complete set of presentations and drawings in a day and a half or so, eventually shooting a render through modo601, (also pretty fast if you create your model for doing that).
I’ve used Catia v5 for clients, it’s as fun as going back to 1980’s Autocad Lisp, it must be great for linking seatbelts to wheel assemblies in airplanes, but for me it’s just painful.
Solidworks has plenty of defaults (probably as many as users), but it is fast, intuitive, easy to use, and quite easy to edit. We get all kinds of mistakes on every step from input, just go back to your documented model and (scrap) correct.
If Dassault does move to a Catia based kernel, I would be very reluctant to follow. As much as I would love to see kinetics and so on, I dislike mindlessly adding on “un”functionality to uselessness.
Another thing that comes to mind is good quality model libraries. This unending competition for miraculous upgrades has left many manufacturers at a loss to supply usable models for conception. Not only are reliable models scarce, no reliable trademark system is in place. Though I do not fear copyright infringement on my own work, subcontractors and suppliers certainly do. If main work was done on CAD programs, (SW), I would suggest it be done in this direction (unfeaturing, part stamping, and so on) as well as guaranteeing high quality libraries for users and suppliers.
We would all like to see easier file management, probably even more so in small enterprise, but the need for cloud style there is not evident at all. Microsoft style complexity is time consuming and useless. What I need are good tools, not necessarily fancy ones.
What is Your notion of Catia Lite?
Lite Priced or Lite in Functionality?
Gal Raz on “Why Dassault had to kill Solidworks”
If only because this article is in the vein of this thread, I thought it be worth posting. The title alone is what caught my eye and take it with a grain of salt considering that this guy now works for Autodesk VAR
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2012/07/gal-raz-on-why-dassault-had-to-kill-solidworks.html
Whatever the new SW be, leaving Austin,Gordan,Paul and some other top notch core SW R&D team members is clear sign that new SW will be a lighter mirror image of CATIA.
We must wait Solidworks World 2013 to see V6. After all speculations and 3 year of silent form DS SW Im not sure that V6 will work only in cloud. This week SolidWorks announced new desktop product, SolidWorks Electrical (http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/solidworks-electrical.htm) which mean that they didnt give up from deskop softwares. Most of speculations come from Siemens UGS. I try UGS SolidEdge software which is from UGS words: “much faster than SW”. Well, its not. It is great product but for me (who use SW 10 years) have only one big disadvantage: it is not SolidWorks 😉
@Mike Ramsey
I think that most people don’t understanding what part we are talking about that is being “stored” in the cloud. We all have to take a step back and recognize that CATIA (no I’m not yelling) V6 methodology takes away the idea of “part file” or an “assy file”. What you do have is a methodology that dices up your solid definition into “data modules” and stores them in a database. When you access a design project you are asking the system to go out and collect all the data modules assigned to project and display them on your screen. Your “part” might be a combination of 2-2000 “data modules”.
I think you will have a difficult time using a “replicate” method.
@DevonSowell
This may explain why Solidworks pr used to ban video taping of the general session by the media.
I recall one year sitting in the front row at Solidworks World next to Deelip Menezes of India, when a Solidwork pr flack bolted over and freaked out over him holding his camera at the stage. She demanded he stop video taping.
He, like I, take a series of still photographs at these events, because it is hard to get a good picture of presenters in the dim light. I typically take a dozen or more shots in a row of each presenter to get one photo that looks just right. She thought Deelip was video recording.
He wasn’t. But after that incident, he began video recording.
@DevonSowell
WOW Devon….. that’s simply amazing!!
@Rick McWilliams
Rick-About 3 years ago I attended SolidWorks World with a Press Pass, I sat in the third row during most of the General Sessions. I used my telephoto camera lens & looked closely at the keyboards of laptops on the stage being used for “live demos” of SolidWorks up on the giant screen. I just had a feeling something wasn’t quite right.
The users were totally faking it. Their hand and finger movements did not match what was being shown on the big screen. It was obvious to me and my neighbors that what was being shown were prerecorded videos, not live demos. It was very obvious during the “comedy sketches” highlighting the new features in the next version of SolidWorks, the Architectural Version of V6, and other demos.
Devon Sowell
@Rick McWilliams
It is especially disturbing (demo being nearly fake) considering SolidWorks supposed skunkworks had by this point been working on SW V6 for three years already, apparently.
Online technology changes fast these days. Autodesk is learning it the hard way. Its first online “AutoCAD” was powered by brute-force servers; this proved a dead-end. They replaced that with AutoCAD WS, technology that first used Flash, another dead end. Then they had to rewrite WS from practically scratch for mobile devices, first iOS, then Android.
At least they delivered over the last several years multiple versions (for free!) that AutoCAD users can spend some time tire kicking, unlike DS SolidWorks.
@Josh
For my company the biggest issue we have is with EPDM. We have so much customization in that program that we have no idea how this will affect us if SWV6 is Enovia based. The fact that we just got it 1.5 years ago means we may not get our ROI on EPDM if we have to switch.
Josh your comments are exactly why we stayed away from EPDM. With them changing to Enovia. We did not want to do have to install and learn two different PDM systems within a few years of each other. A waste of money and time.
It was the first reason the we began looking at other PDM solutions. Stability in this decade.
Billy
In light of the first two quotes that Matt showed in the article, I think at this point there really isn’t much to be commented on. Anything that anyone has seen at this point means nothing, and if the quote by Bernard can be taken at face value, users will have a choice.
Now that doesn’t mean a smooth transition to those that upgrade. I suspect DS will lose some customers. Some will think ‘if I have to translate my data anyway, I might as well shop around and see if something else fits’.
For my company the biggest issue we have is with EPDM. We have so much customization in that program that we have no idea how this will affect us if SWV6 is Enovia based. The fact that we just got it 1.5 years ago means we may not get our ROI on EPDM if we have to switch.
Solidworks is not sufficiently reliable to use an amorphous database. I often save files with different names so that I can go back to an uncorrupted model. Sometimes the associated files must be “hidden”, in another directory so that a failed assembly will not do extensive damage. I will change to another CAD rather than suffer a pain in the cloud.
It is disturbing to hear that the Cloud Solidworks “demo” was almost fake.
@Mike Ramsey
Mike,
If you follow the entire discussion, you’ll see that most of us here are independents. In fact, most of SolidWorks customers are small shops with less than 5 seats. Multi-national design teams is what Catia is for. SolidWorks is for smaller groups.
If you’re already doing that, you’re already doing that. But I don’t need to do that, and I’ll be damned if a tool is going to force the issue. There are plenty of tools.
Some groups like yours will have an appreciation for a cloud implementation, but the majority will not. SolidWorks was not originally intended to be a tool for large distributed groups. Since DS already has a tool for that demographic, I think they only stand to lose by trying to tell customers that Catia Lite is just the continuation of SolidWorks.
Well now we know why Jon and Austin walked out 9 months ago.
And if you don’t live sufficiently close or have fast enough Internet connection (what’s fast enough?), then it will probably feel like running SolidWorks over a dial-up connection. Yuck.
I guess I don’t get this big stink over the cloud. I sit here and read everybody proclaiming the sky is falling or the cloud is falling or some other kneejerk reaction. Maybe you’re all working as a one man band or some other small shop like that. If that’s the case sure then this cloud business seems stupid/pointless/scary. I’m working for a global company that has all of our files on a central server in Chicago from there we’re replicating (using EPDM) to Europe, Asia and North America. So explain to me how this is a drastic difference to what I’m doing now. I’m already renting out space on somebody elses server and pulling it locally to work on it. Now I agree that a thin client probably isn’t a great idea but storing my data at some offsite server farm is nothing new to me and I thought that was the whole point of a PDM/PLM system anyway. So we might as well get used to it with distributed design teams and global companies.
“and the immense processing power on AMD Fusion Render Cloud servers”
So that would be a parallel or multithreaded process? I’d doubt their ability to do that, based on the history of SW and PTC to multithread their rebuild process.
Storing Engineering Design Data on an offsite hosted Cloud Server is a bad idea.
People argue against this by saying, “You use online banking, right?” or some such weak argument. Look, my online bank account is; #1 insured against theft #2 the EXACT value of my online bank account is evident i.e. $6,567.89 on a certain date, let’s say.
Here’s a question; What is the “Value” of engineering design data? If the data is hacked & copied, then manufactured illegally, can you file a claim with an insurance company? What if the theft originates in a foreign country? Who determines the value of the engineering design data and the value of stolen ideas that are then manufactured and sold?
Risky, very risky. Still want The Cloud? I don’t, not for Engineering Design Data.
Devon Sowell
The version of SolidWorks V6 shown at SWW ran on a central file server, and was pushed to the variety of screens (Windows, Mac, tablet) through video streaming technology from Otoy.
I interviewed the ceo of Otoy in 2010; see http://www.upfrontezine.com/2010/upf-635.htm. Here is the part I wrote specific to the demo shown at SolidWorks World…
> At SolidWorks World, the programmers at Dassault Systemes demonstrated a client-side app using APIs provided by OTOY. (The client-side app is the software that runs on your computer; its purpose is to communicate with OTOY’s servers.) OTOY runs a copy of SolidWorks on a server, reacting to your command entry and screen interactions (mouse movements and clicks).
The screen display generated by the SolidWorks software is compressed very quickly and then transmitted to your computer. If you live sufficiently close and have a fast enough Internet connection, then it should feel as fast as running SolidWorks on your own desktop computer.
OTOY takes care of saving and retrieving the data associated with your 3D model, which could be located on Amazon’s S3 cloud server or on a data farm hosted by Dassault Systemes. Mr. Urbach noted that a cloud-based SW would load and edit models quickly, because of the high-speed link between OTOY and S3 (or other servers on the Internet backbone) and the immense processing power on AMD Fusion Render Cloud servers.
It is conceivable that you could run full SolidWorks on an Android smartbook or iPhone — and this may explain DS ceo Bernard Charles’ excitement as he waved his iPhone about. <
So, if this heavy-duty push system is being scraped in favor of DS's own tech, then it is no surprise. Technology has moved on in the last two years.
Now here is a company with a similar type of problem to Dassault. The paragraphs below area quoted from a BBC report. The thing to note is that the chief executive is out there talking to customers and the public and not leaking, lying, stalling and hiding. It is a little hedged but its not a bad effort. ‘Lets be honest we have a problem’..great opening line.. So Bernard what about getting off your ass and demonstrating you have the skills and integrity to occupy your position. I’ll give you a clue this is different from working the room and giving smiley love bites and its different from still more search engines and customer surveys. If you cant perhaps we should have someone take over the company in August?…
>EADS chief executive Tom Enders, who took over the company in June, said: “Let’s be honest: We have a problem with the A380 with the wings. Obviously, some airlines who would have put in an order this year are tempted to wait a little longer.”
He told reporters he expects deliveries for the A380 to drop next year as a result of the repair.
“We do expect that the hiccup with the wing cracks and the solutions will impact deliveries and I do expect that we will not reach 30 deliveries next year,” he said.
“Obviously we have a challenge dealing with the wing cracks and with customers and that will result in a temporary – temporary – delivery doubt. But we know how to fix the problem and it’s well under way.”
@matt
Perfect—that’s the article I was thinking of. So much is said within that article (and the comments).
@matt
All DASSAULT SYSTEMES CAD tools are all caps, ie ENVOIA, CATIA, 3DVIA. Like so many other DASSAULT SYSTEMES ideas, a pain in the neck.
I’m really starting to like SW2009 more and more all the time. Especially considering three years of savings on subscription service (with Flow). SW2009 is a long ways from ideal, but when V6 or Catia Lite is introduced, if ever, I will be happy to consider it at that time, if, of course, it will seamlessly translate all of my old SW files.
But maybe “riding ourselves of the history based design paradigm” will also solve the translation issue?????
And maybe V6 or Catia Lite will be priced to compete with Space Claim…………
How would you rate the job performance of DASSAULT SYSTEMES in regards to their management of SolidWorks during the past 4 years or so?
Yawn…
I wonder how much $$ they just walked away from?
I’ve heard some other rumors too, but I’m not going to share them. My preference is to not concern myself with all this nonsense anymore. Although like a train wreck, its difficult to look away. It’s really just a bad joke now.
DS SolidWorks; Continuous curve creation tools, robust spline creation, real time FEA, better external file reference management. Work on these and good luck, apparently you need it.
@Jeff Mowry
Jeff, the “Catia Lite” category is a new one, roughly equivalent to V6.
I think the article you’re talking about is “Examining V6 Roots” http://www.dezignstuff.com/blog/?p=7516
The guy you’re talking about might be Andy Reilly, a Catia evangelist of sorts.
Matt, I checked your “Catia Lite” category, but this was the only article found. But there was an article from a while back where a Catia guy wrote an article on Catia/cloud stuff and he even showed up with some info in the comments. When was that article? Anyway, I found that one to be the most illuminating on the subject to date.
Tough sell is an understatement, I’m afraid. From the other article the mission of SolidWorks in the Catia direction is the biggest slap in the face to “small” users I could ever have conceived. Nothing is geared to them. Everything is aimed only at multitudes of design teams in many separated areas working concurrently on data in some undisclosed (and, I’m sure, heavily fortified) cloud location. Whatever happened to software for the small machine or design shop? None of this crap is good for them (us).
OK so can we assume Dassault leaked this themselves to prepare the way for yet further delays? That is it won’t be ready next year after all (2014,2015? is that 6,7 or 8 years development? I lost count)…or, they want to propogate the rumour that the whole scheme has been scrapped to reduce customer anxiety before the slaughter. Yes dear users there just might be a chance what ever finally gets cobbled together isn’t going to be entirely cloud based so keep hanging on and keep up with those subscriptions 😉
Bah! This whole project has been an exercise in self mutilation from the beginning. Isn’t there anyone with a few clues about what to do. I mean truly, anyone? The Palace de Concord gardener?? the window cleaner’s apprentice?? I am completely sick of this fiasco. Don’t sent me surveys and reminders of surveys. Don’t BS me about anything more. Deliver useful goods or you can piss off!
No mention of geometry, again…