How Long will your Desktop Solidworks Last?
By now most Solidworks users who don’t live under a digital rock already know that the Solidworks software as you know it is slowly fading away. Licensing options are disappearing. PDM options have been gone for a long time. Another renderer has bitten the dust. The new options of course are on the cloud, not part of the subscription you’ve been paying to maintain your investment, and part of the new 3DX regime. And what’s this new “gotta buy 4 years of maintenance” thing? That’s an ace for sure. You are slowly being pushed over into a new software you have not evaluated. Your What’s New document every year gets smaller and smaller, and the actual new CAD related features have become pretty rare.
Anyway, you know all of that already. It has been happening for a while and will continue.
The transition is being drawn out because they want you to wind up in the destination of 3DXperience Land without really noticing you have moved anywhere. Like that episode of Star Trek TNG where Worf and his step-brother lead a superstitious tribe away from their home planet which is about to explode onto a new stable planet. There’s always some relevant Star Trek analogy, isn’t there?
It might turn out that you like the new destination. Maybe it serves your needs, and it’s just what you would pick if you had to pick a replacement for your old Solidworks. But it might also turn out t be something other than what you would pick if DS were not the one picking for you.
So, back to the main question, how long is the desktop version going to last? Of course a real answer can only be answered by the people who supply the software. I seriously doubt you’re going to hear anything but assurances with heavily veiled hints at choices you might make. It’s not an outright lie, but it’s far from truthful.
Of course if you chart the decline of CAD content in the What’s New document, or the rate of removal of certain things that you used to see as essential (like an included PDM product or home use license or an included renderer or even a free 2D only application), you could draw that chart yourself. We’ve talked about the Mechanical Desktop syndrome before. Is that the future you’d really choose for yourself?
The point is here that you want to be able to control your move to another product on your own terms, not when someone else finally pulls the plug on you. You should have a plan in place to make the transition in a controlled fashion and avoid chaos.
Where do you look to replace a product like Solidworks? It depends on what you need. For most Solidworks users, the software they bought into is WAY more than they need in some ways and WAY LESS than they need in others. If you really just make stuff with simple shapes or structural components, 2D or 2 1/2D CNC kind of parts, you can consider something as simple as IronCAD. Yes, it’s a different way of working and thinking about CAD , but it totally works for simple stuff. You don’t get bonus points for making your work harder than it needs to be, or for having software that’s 3X as complex as you need it to be. IronCAD is a solid choice for simple assembly and manufacturing.
If you want to move to the cloud, of course that’s where 3DExperience is hoping to take you, but also don’t forget Onshape, from the folks who brought you Solidworks in the first place. It has some really cool innovations. But there are a couple of things to remember about the cloud. The cloud is primarily a marketing, customer retention and IT innovation. It doesn’t do much for you from the engineering side of things. In fact, most of the developments have not been to actual CAD functions, they’ve been in how you access the software (IT), how you pay for the software (business), who is really in charge of your tools (IT/network), and what happens when you stop paying for the software (customer retention trap). It’s a choice you have to make yourself. Just make sure it’s an informed decision, not a rushed last minute leap.
Of course if you want a lot of tools that are not in Solidworks, so you want a functional upgrade, I say look at Solid Edge. It has all of the history-based tools you’re used to, and a lot of things you’ve probably never used before, like direct edit, interoperability tools, subd tools (the best way to go for freeform organic parts), and of course synchronous technology (the best way to go with prismatic parts).
Part of the reason I prefer Solid Edge and NX over DS products is that Siemens seems to take customer needs into account. Siemens products work together, and when they make changes, the customer is not cut off from their old data. Change does not have to mean you’re facing a dead end. It’s just a better way to deal with change. Disruption is something you want to do to your competitors, not to your customers.
So, in short, I don’t know how long your desktop software is going to last, but we’re on the descent, as evidenced from available products and general decline of new development. You can’t afford to get caught unprepared. Have a look around, and report back here to let us know what you find.
and this from Schnitger: https://schnitgercorp.com/2023/04/26/dassault-systemes-wobbles-on-license-otherwise-good-q1/
“Cloud software revenue grew 17% and represented 24% of software revenue. This is a deceleration, which DS explained by saying that there is seasonality in cloud adoption, especially for large clients that opt for private cloud installations. ”
Large clients opt for private cloud installations. That means internal networks. Someone local to the company is in charge. This makes sense.
Matt,
Can you provide a prospective on comment by Monica?
Just curious because these are pretty darn good numbers, especially when we are talking about growth and dealing with numbers in the multiple billion dollar range.
You can look at revenue for a single quarter for DS and it is almost the full year for one of the main competitors!
As for revenue from subscriptions, that is usually seasonal. If you really want to seed this type of trend take a look at the spreadsheet that PTC supplied with their Q2 report. You will need to graph out the quarter totals but you will see the up and down pattern of how subs are sold/ purchased.
Ryan, When you’re “graphing out” the Quarter Totals be sure to show us the percentage of companies storing their IP in the cloud.
Your whole spiel is about the Cloud, and most if not all people here are only interested in who’s using the Cloud to store their CAD data. And of course you still haven’t addressed the concerns of having your Data (IP) out there for hackers to look at. But like most who are “selling” a promise they ignore the bad parts.
This article explains the only reason for the CLOUD… it’s the all about the $$$$$ and customer/users be damned. And of course once your data is on their servers, they own you. Also with only 3 major players in the market, how long before the cost start going up?
As the article explains the economy is hurting revenues, so how’s going to make up the shortfall… the customer as always.
“Cloud was sometimes billed by vendor salespeople as a cost-effective way for enterprises to scale up and down their IT resources as required, but according to one source it has become “SERIOUSLY expensive”.
“Whilst it’s true that cloud offers massive flexibility, that fact is used as a primary excuse to move to cloud. Except, these same managers don’t understand that software has to be extensively refactored to consume that flexibility and reduce costs. Thus, after migrating, there is massive ‘sticker shock’,” the techie, who wished to remain anonymous, told us.”
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/28/cloud_slowdown_hits_amazon_as/
Please ignore me again so I know I’m right!
Bob,
Thanks for the inquiries. I’ll attempt to answer some of the questions you posed.
Cloud security: (I hope I get this correct! I’m not an expert by any means.) The security of your assets in the cloud is truly dependent on the vendor’s security policies. For DS the platform conforms to very high internationally approved security protocols.
There are basically 3 layers of security required- application (SaaS), platform (PaaS), and infrastructure (IaaS). Each component has its own level of security. SaaS basically is your access to software modules/ workflows within it (let’s call this your roles). PaaS is giving you access to areas of a platform (namely your login/pwd). IaaS is providing security to the servers, networks, datasets and data transfers. Each has its security policies. This is more secure than an on-premise network where someone can stick a USB stick into any pc and infect/corrupt your data.
To add to this there are levels of cloud. There is “level 1” which is really a pseudo-cloud called “lift and shift”. This is basically duplicating an on-premise server and putting it in the cloud and having that cloud server managed by someone else. This is the type of cloud I would NOT recommend. The only true benefit from this is that you have access to the server off-premise and off your internal network. You would use VPN for the connections. The value here is the ability to connect from anywhere at any time. But like I said it requires a VPN connection. Your organization is not taking advantage of the cloud capabilities.
If you talk to some CAD vendors this is all they provide. The vendors might say they are cloud-ready or cloud-capable but it is a far cry from being cloud-native. Why? Well because their software would need to be rewritten to take advantage of cloud resources. I’m thinking Siemens, PTC, and Autodesk at this point. You have strengthed the cloud-native strategy for me with your quotes. These are all quotes about lift and shift cloud:
“…Except, these same managers don’t understand that software has to be extensively refactored to consume that flexibility and reduce costs. Thus, after migrating, there is massive ‘sticker shock’,” the techie, who wished to remain anonymous, told us.”
There are a lot of organizations that have rushed to the Lift and Shift cloud and are getting killed by TCO- total cost of ownership! TCO is where all the hidden fees you didn’t think about when you lifted. Things like vpn ports, and latency issues It’s like jumping into a hot air balloon to see the world..and then forgetting that the higher you get the colder it is and the less air you have..and you forgot your coat and O2! I truly feel sorry for those companies that are getting stung by TCO and using only a cloud level 1 strategy.
Cloud level 2 is a system that is hybrid where you have some applications that have been written to take advantage of cloud computing and storage. If I had to give you an example, I would say that Solid Edge Share is such a tool. Kinda..I believe that NX has a newer tool that is using cloud computing to do design optimization studies and then you choose your acceptable design study results. But that is a new tool and it was acquired not written by Siemens. Autodesk is also doing this with some of their design study tools for AEC.
Cloud level 3 is what I would define as cloud-native software. Software that is written to take advantage of all the cloud has to offer a business. This is software that is written to take advantage of servers, gpu, cpu, data storage, data security, multi-tenancy, etc.
I hope that helps your understanding..but I am in full agreement that lift and shift is not the way to go with a cloud strategy. Here is a link to an article in the CPO Magazine..basically says what I am saying. https://www.cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/lift-and-shift-cloud-migration-benefits-disadvantages-and-use-cases/#:~:text=4%20Disadvantages%20of%20Lift%20and%20Shift%20Migration%201,…%204%204.%20Increased%20risks%20after%20migration%20
I do agree with you 100% that some vendors are selling cloud and really shouldn’t be..but they had to come up with something. PTC bought Onshape not necessarily for Onshape but for the Atlas cloud-native platform it resides on! Look for CREO+ running on this in the next few months. Then you have Onshape itself. That is a true cloud-native CAD tool. Then, hold on, you can look at CATIA if you need multi-disciple CAx tools running on 3DEXPERIENCE platform. Or you can look at SOLIDWORKS EXPERIENCE or SOLIDWORKS connected to the platform! (and yes I despise all those capital letters too!)
As to your other question about data stored on the cloud.. Here’s a site with all cloud statistics. I’ll let you thumb through it. There is a “statistics” section.
https://www.cloudwards.net/cloud-computing-statistics/
I don’t see these cloud providers as hostage-takers. All provide ways to get your data out of the cloud and back to on-premise. Now I know that everyone is under the assumption that data in a database cannot be extracted..that’s a false assumption. Anyway, I hope this all helps.
Gee Ryan why aren’t there any statistics showing CAD users handing over their data to the cloud?
You keep arguing that the Cloud is inevitable, but you never give anything specific that impacts the user reading this forum. You seem to be parroting just what SW Dassult tells you.
The parts I love with the articles in the links you posted is things like this:
“Human Error is to Blame for breaches in 88% of cases”
You mean like “Human Error” in the backwoods of China or India?
“24. What Are the Main Cloud Security Concerns?
According to cybersecurity experts, the most pressing cloud security challenges are misconfiguration of the cloud infrastructure (68 percent); unauthorized access (58 percent); insecure API (52 percent); accounts, services or traffic hijacking (50 percent) and external data sharing (43 percent).”
And nobody has access to my DATA via a Thumb Drive.
So unless you can share some better research on why I should trust the Cloud with my CAD Data, I’ll wait and let others be the guinea pigs.
Oh and being held hostage by a Vendor when stop paying is real.
https://www.crowdstrike.com/cybersecurity-101/cloud-security/cloud-security-risks-threats-challenges/
I rest my case….
Private cloud usually just means single tenant. Not necessarily that someone local is in “charge”. The cloud environment is still managed.
“Inevitability” is just a measure of how hard software companies are willing to push their own interests. The perpetual revenue stream of subscription and lower upgrade and distribution costs for developers are the factors driving this. There will always be some customers for whom that works and some for whom it doesn’t. Think about China’s F-35 fighter and you know why it’s a bad idea.
You shouldn’t confuse convenience with power.
C’Mon Matt…if there was no benefit to subscriptions for the business/customer they would not be doing them! It’s the “shift” of costs from Capital to Operational that drives subscriptions. Plain and simple it’s a win-win. You have to look beyond the R&D side of the business and peak at how IT and Finance work.
I guess I don’t understand your argument for “lower upgrade” and “distribution costs for developers are factors driving this”. Can you explain?
Remember that PTC and Siemens is offering Lift and Shift cloud solutions. This is not what all the vendors are offering. I did find this article interesting. It goes to reinforcing Bob’s and your arguments and by the end of the article reinforces others.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2021/09/21/lift-shift-and-drift-when-cloud-migrations-fail-miserably/?sh=5d209956741f
You’re not seeing the problems from the customer point of view. It’s going to be end user philosophy that prevents DS from really getting what they want out of this SW mess. It’s what caused them to backpedal the first time, and it is their blind spot today. You’re enabling this blindspot. What blindspot? DS may understand DS customers, but they do not understand SW customers. They are different. One is a corporate drone and the other is an independent individualist. This dichotomy exists because of the very nature of the original SW product and the kind of people who flocked to it early on. The percentage of individualists may have diluted after say 2010, but that tendency is still there, even as you try to kill off this product. You’re much better off to sell it off than to try to change it. It’s like the Catholic Church trying to absorb Southern Baptists. Not gonna happen.
Hey Ryan,
Did you know that benefits can be subjective, meaning that while they might seem like a good alternative to some, they may be the end of the world to others?
If there was no benefit to jumping off a bridge, why are people doing it?
“I guess I don’t understand your argument for “lower upgrade” and “distribution costs for developers are factors driving this”.”
Yes you don’t understand. When you say “You have to look beyond the R&D side of the business and peak at how IT and Finance work.” That statement explains why folks like you need to stay out of R&D.
The major difference is a “dollar is a dollar” in the Cloud, and there is no impact on the Finances of the company if the Cloud goes down for hours or days… you don’t stop your business because you can’t see your banking data. But leave R&D without their Data, and everything stops.
The other thing is someone can glance at or even steal your Financial Data on the Cloud, and there’s nothing of great IP value, but with R&D just reading a patent application can cause tremendous losses in the marketplace.
Here’s another example of How Big Tech is snooping on you, and somehow Ryan’s Cloud is not doing the same.
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/26/microsoft_edge_url/
Matt,
I have to challenge you on a few things in your post.
Can you tell me where you got the “4 year maintenance thing” comment. I can’t find anything to support that. The closest thing I found was the ability to renew and have the ability to prepay for up to 5 years at the current maintenance price.
Secondly, you comment that the “cloud is primarily a marketing, customer retention and IT innovation. It doesn’t do much for you from the engineering side of things. In fact, most of the developments have not been to actual CAD functions, they’ve been in how you access the software (IT), how you pay for the software (business), who is really in charge of your tools (IT/network), and what happens when you stop paying for the software (customer retention trap). ”
Wow. While your comments on “development have not been to actaul CAD functions” might be for some companies I can tell you that it is not so for others. Some vendors are doing, as already mentioned on an earlier post, a Lift and Shift cloud “strategy” orthers are actually building true cloud-based functions that utilize the benefits of cloud computing. But you are NOT going to be able to do true cloud-based CAD while using a file-based CAD system. No can do. That is why Onshape is so different and why 3DEXPERIENCE is a complete business platform ( I didn’t say CAD or PLM system.) Both, I beleive but will need to verify, are object-based databases.
I’d like to invite you to go looking for ModSim. See what can be done with true cloud-based applications that run on a platform. You will probably be surprised.
Ryan, the 4 year maintenance thing was from a discussion on my forum. A customer said it came from their reseller. So there are layers of hearsay, but that’s the source.
You’re focusing on a certain class of business and ignoring everything else. This expansive vision works for a subset. A lot, I’d venture even most companies don’t fit that mold. Look at the companies that gave SW it’s start – small couple of seat deals. The stuff you’re talking about is for much larger orgs than that, and the smaller deals really don’t want what 3DX is offering. Nobody wants their CAD provider to suddenly start driving the whole business, especially with the reliability and lack of customer centered development that DS exhibits. It’s the wrong model to be pushing on the wrong audience. It would make much better sense from a continuity of ideas point of view for DS to sell off SW instead of just trying to destroy it. Everything DS has done for the last 15 years or so has been out of jealousy of the SW success. This whole 3DX thing is a 180 neck-jerk for the people who bought into SW from the beginning. I have every faith that DS will eventually destroy SW. It’s such a cash cow, though, that they have to do it slowly to fund the ridiculous 3DX thing. SW users are a captive audience, and I guess DS is just trying to wear them down over time.
In the end, DS should have sold off SW when Jeff Ray was in charge, and used that revenue to develop 3DX. The way things are, they’ve taken something that customers loved and are trying to steer it in the opposite direction. I don’t think people can or should be manipulated like that.
3DX is fine on its own, I’m sure, but holding SW hostage to fund 3DX is the wrong thing to do in a lot of ways.
I was informed by my VAR in Australia that as of January of this year, perpetual license subscription fees will only be renewable for three years at a time. No longer can we subscribe for a single year at a time.
And just yesterday I was told this…
“Just wanted to inform that we have a confirmed communication from Dassault about the off-subscription perpetual seats. So, all the seats which are expired more than 3 years, will not be able to renew anymore after the end of this financial year i.e., June 30th 2023. ”
This feels like a blatant extortion tactic. And a very real indication of the direction they are heading.
ie. when the last desktop version is released, (and this will happen, we just cannot know when..), there is already precedent in place for the “three year” timeframe to invalidate solidworks desktop and leave only the cloud option for everyone.
I am a bit confused by your response. You can’t “subscribe” if you have a perpetual license. Perpetual licensing, doesn’t “use” subscription. Now if your VAR is saying they won’t provide support (your subs) for your off maintenance licenses and they want to gouge you for support, that is really up to the VAR. To me, that doesn’t sound like good business practice. But on the flip side, it is difficult to maintain support on legacy software.
I believe in 2022, the EULA agreement was replaced with the OST (offering specific terms) agreement for license usage. The only thing I was able to find was that you needed to “reactivate” your perpetual license annually. (So, basically, you are hitting a subscription server to confirm you are still using the perpetual license. At least that is my opinion!)
As for the off-maintenance seats and not being able to renew them after being off maintenance for 3 years. That is not an unusual policy. Mainly, because your back maintenance plus any additional fees could cost more than a new seat. You would have to do the math. I don’t know your pricing in Australia.
In this case, if you wanted to reinstate your maintenance (and support!) the best route would be to purchase new seats and those new seats will more than likely be subscriptions. DS is following PTC, Autodesk, and Siemens in these regards. So this should not be a surprise to anyone.
All licensing should be on the DS system by mid-year.
I hope this helps.
Everyone from customers to resellers seem to have been telling DS that the 3dexperience platform is not well suited to the typical 1-5 user small business customers for over 10 years. While I’m sure there have been some improvements it feels like a dated platform with crazy user experience, functionality holes and major QA concerns.
All the changes to license terms, pricing etc seem to have been so gradual it doesn’t seem to have hurt sales much but I suspect a point will come where customers have had enough and look elsewhere given the lack of functionality to justify their subscription. 2023/2024 may just be that time
There have been continual attempts to at-least appear raise the numbers for adoption of the platform, 3d experience licenses bundled into deals etc but I suspect the vast majority never even used the 3dexperience platform just got licenses via promo deals.
now from July 23 your SolidWorks subscription will be $300 higher per year but include 3dexperience access. This is being pitched as a steal since it would usually be $1500!
No choice…. so what if you already have PDM or just see zero value in this proposition?…. tough luck you just pay more. Sure they will steadily raise traditional solidworks license costs too
It’s all about the 3dexperience vanity project, now perusing it with Solidworks to please Bernard/ investors… despite still struggling to get Catia V5 users to switch who tend to be much bigger organisations and may see more value in the company wide proposition, if it works…..
I think we all know if DS had swallowed their pride and bought onshape that would have had far more adoption than 3dexperience, or the embarrassing super hero apps.
The people with the true vision got pushed out of the company after SWW World 2010
The new creo+ looks far more like the hybrid SolidWorks should be, we will see more when they launch it but all looks optional so those who don’t want a server and don’t mind cloud saas can go for it and as it is built on a solid platform I have more confidence it will actually work!
Lift and Shift is a PTC term.
Solidworks brings in over $1 billion a year to Dassault, representing roughly 20% of revenues. That’s a goose with a golden egg DS dare not slaughter.
my well informed sources tell me Siemens is currently clobbering Dassault in terms of making the switch customers and aquiring new. SW is kinda dead and Dassault is riding their marketing train until it ends for good.
Is this a Siemens source or a Dassault source? It would be more credible if coming from a Dassault source…
Well, your “well informed souce” is absolutely wrong. You just have to look at the finacial reporting to see that this can’t be the case. If anything, it might be reversed. Siemens does hype a lot of things, including contract renewals (which are not new wins). Their materials are kinda misleading.
CIMData 2022 reports show there is no way Siemens is winning many seats. The graphs tell you differently.
Also, DS doesn’t really advertise their wins.
Main message, don’t go by what you read or see in youtube videos. Stick with the data and facts.
There are certain philosophical bents that are, well, predictable. Young people tend toward ideas that give them a lot of stuff, because that’s what they’re used to. Kids start out with nothing, and can’t actually do anything, so everything has to be given to them.
Globalist/urbanist/collectivism/socialism gets support because it takes stuff from people who worked for it and gives it to people who are jealous. I charitably lump this centralized control idea into that. I say charitably because the cynical way of looking at it is that it’s just a raw money grab hiding behind a utopian front.
There is this contingent of people who don’t understand ownership, not because ownership is a bad idea, just because they have never actually owned anything. Rent/lease is inevitably more expensive unless you aren’t stable, and move around a lot. If you are renting or leasing, you are being taken advantage of, probably voluntarily. It’s not very smart. Cloud makes you lease someone elses software plus you have to lease your own data. That’s not even not smart, it’s just plain straight up stupid.
Before I turned 30, I thought I was socialist. Wasn’t sure what that meant, but it was about helping people. Or that’s what I optimistically thought. As I grew older, I thought I was a libertarian, because I had the ability to provide for me and mine, and didn’t want to be interfered with. Approaching retirement, I tend to get grumpy when people want to take what’s mine and redistribute it to people who are young enough to work, but just think they’re entitled to what I’ve already done because it exists.
So at each stage of life, I think we have a tendency to defend our role in the world. And yes, people under 30, there will be change, but it will be your ideas that mature with you that do the changing. That’s one thing that doesn’t change.
Don’t tell me that the cloud is inevitable. What’s inevitable is recycled ideas parading as “innovation”. Make up any story to justify it. There will come a day in the future when some brilliant self-promoting futurist will invent individualism, and the cycle continues.
Leasing cars has not taken over straight ownership, and it continues to be a bad choice for most people, and an extravagant or indulgent option for others.
My thesis is that there are two kinds of people in the world:
a. Those who grasp for power any way they can (think Extinction Rebellion, yippies in the 60s) through shortcuts to power
b. Those who have power and try to hang on to it any way they can (think politicians, financial titans)
Group A tends to be younger, as they are starting out, looking for financial security, which they do not have yet. Group B has it, and so tends to be older.
I guess there is group C, people like Matt and me, who spent the last 30-40 years working really hard to provide for our family, and give some back to society.
There is definitely a group C, and they aren’t all approaching retirement. Not everyone in the world hungers for power.
Matt,
I’m gonna tell you…cloud is inevitable. 🙂 Heck Microsoft is now selling complete virtual pcs. Have a new employee or contractor. Stand up a pc in the cloud, on your network, and have the emloyee login. Done in about 10 minutes. Just as easy when the tell you to take the job and shove it. Shut them down in 10 minutes or less. This is a great way to get people migrated for M&As. Let them keep their legacy ssytems and have an icon to launch their new pc on a second screen. Work in both environments until you shut the legacy one down.
Ryan
Oh Please…. you’re using Microsoft making “virtual PC’s” as an example of the future of the Cloud. Sure maybe for 95% of the people doing low level accounting and emails, but Serious CAD that involves a users IP…. not a chance. Microsoft and the rest of the “Cloud Heads” haven’t proven they can be trusted with their customers data and personal information.
As Matt stated: “Don’t tell me that the cloud is inevitable. What’s inevitable is recycled ideas parading as “innovation”. Make up any story to justify it.”
We all know selling this “Cloud everywhere” non-sense is the flavor of the day and is your business model, so I can’t fault you for trying, but please, but please give it a rest.
We all can agree that the Development of CAD has slowed considerably over the past 5+ years, and the desire to give their customers a reason to continue to purchase yearly maintenance contracts or go to subscription requires something to talk about…
If an Engineering department makes a “NEW HIRE” and thinks putting them on a PC to the Cloud is a good investment, it must be at a place like Microsoft, Facebook, or Twitter.
Bob-
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I am using one of the largest companies in the world that deals with cloud, data centers, security, general business software, hardware, etc. as an example of pc in the cloud. Windows 365 Business Cloud is an offering that is starting to take over large corporations- it only makes business sense to go this route. The same can be said for startups. As these businesses become FedRAMP certified the government will be moving there too.
For CAD in the cloud, you need a proper partner for that. As we are all aware it’s the GPU that is the difficult part of implementing CAD in the cloud- CPU is not an issue. Either that or you need a CAD tool that doesn’t create such a burden on the GPU and can rely on CPU. But for most CAD vendors this would require a software rewrite to support true cloud applications. But CAD-in-the-cloud can be done and is being done.
@Bob, have a unique role as a business owner and CAD author. So what you create is truly “your” data. While with most CAD authors, the data is the business’ data. It’s the business that is making the IT recommendations. It is the business that is realizing that the work environment has changed and is not going back to pre-pandemic. Our reality hit a tipping point. It’s not going back. There will need to be another tipping point event to make it change. Maybe it will be all the AI robots that enslave the human race and force us to be slaves. I recall seeing a scene like this in one of the later seasons of Battlestar Galactica. Great series!
I digress. If you are seeing slowdowns in CAD features it might be because companies are building out their architecture and foundations to support cloud computing. @ralph mentioned microservices. That is really what you are starting to see happen. All the traditional CAD design tools are being broken down into microservices and offered in the cloud. Take a look at what Autodesk is doing with some of the city planning and architectural design study tools. (I.e. you have a couple of city blocks and you need to see what a new building is going to do in a specific area. You can tell the system you need a building with so many different room spaces and the software can then go optimize the building layout/floors for you. Or if you build a building that is 10 stories high how is that going to affect the surrounding areas and green spaces- reflective light and wind..etc.) You can say the same thing about topology optimization for mechanical design. Lots of tools are going this way. Design is no longer about building a bracket to connect part1 to part2 in the assemblyX. It is also about the full lifecycle of those parts, how they affect other things..and using a word that will raise ire.. sustainability..and the overall effects of design decisions.
Ryan,
My God, you sound like a pitchman on late night TV from the 70’s…
Once again another “consultants” who many never have done much of Engineering or Design, know exactly what the end market needs but users be damned… I’m not telling you are wrong, I’m just saying I’m not interested in the Cloud for CAD… I see no upside. I do have everyone here in my company using MS Exchange and we do use One Drive with customers. But to actually do work with CAD with my files somewhere in the Cloud is just not my idea of secure. i don’t trust the WEB nor any government, and especially now the USA. Just ask the Pentagon what’s going on wit hall their “Top Secret Documents”… and not that they would know, or care.
I realize I’m a rare person, one who uses CAD daily but also runs a business with other Engineers and employees. So I’m not easily fooled when it comes to salesman telling me the future is just around the corner… and it’ll make my life easier.
Ryan… here’s your “cloud” at work…
DownDetector this morning reported a spike in complaints about a Microsoft 365 outage just before 0800 ET (1200 UTC).
“Here we go again, our daily wake up call from M365,” one user wrote, with another saying that the software giant is “making my case to move to Exchange Online difficult.”
One user said their site was down because of the problem. Another said the outage was causing some confusion around SharePoint.
“Why is site usage data showing views, whereas hub usage is zero?” they asked.
One user in Ireland wrote on Reddit that the problem had been going on since 1000 local time.
The outage is only the latest to hit Microsoft this year and comes just days after a problem causing high CPU utilization rates in some of its infrastructure tanked the use of various services for many users who were unable to sign into their Microsoft 365 accounts.
For many, once they finally did get into their accounts, they were unable to see online services like SharePoint Online, Planner, Yammer, and Outlook on the web. Those impacted by the outage were served by the affected infrastructure, with most of the cases being in North and South Americ
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/24/microsoft_365_search_outage/
This is happening more and more… so tell me again why I need to run CAD from the cloud?
The fundamental flaw with cloud is that it adds two more layers of complexity (read: failure), that for most cases in CAD is unnecessary:
Layer 1: The desktop computer
Layer 2: The internet connection
Layer 3: The cloud service
For CAD vendors, the cloud is also a problem, due to the high prices they have to pay to rent storage and compute-time from cloud vendors, most often Amazon.
Well said Matt. As usual.
This Ryan guy is an absolute perfect example of a Hitler Youth. A brainwashed believer till the firing squad yells “FIRE” and he still believes hell be spared for his beloved motherland.
Ryan is actually a good guy. He has held several jobs and is adept at seeing ideas from different points of view. I don’t believe he’s brainwashed. Temporarily playing for the wrong team possibly, but not brainwashed.
well perhaps. But i tend to be very… Very cautious about people that tout the company line / i was just following orders. Because they have to believe it to some degree to peddle it so hard or at the very least be quite ok compromising their morals or integrity to do so. All of which don’t sit well with being “a good guy” IMO. I’m not talking about the guy IRL. This is only the internet after all. But again… very cautious.
Thanks Matt. The previous post is an opinion and some opinions don’t deserve responses.
Instead of opinions, here are some facts. I’m considered an “old timer” in the CAD industry- mainly because I started using CAD when I was 16.
I’ve been using CAD since 1986. You engineers out there should be able to figure out how old I am now! LOL.
I have 1-2 US patents. Built and designed seat adjuster assemblies for the automotive industry, custom automation equipment, gas turbine air treatment systems for powerplants and smaller units, and industrial floor cleaning equipment. I have worked on individual workstations that burnt the crap out of your eyes when you did a refresh..Green and aber screens.. to working CAD on laptops that were 15 pounds to working with CAD on Surface Pros to working with CAD in the cloud.
I have used CAD systems like:
FARBCAD (I think that is what it was called. I had to load the entire program into ROM every time and it took about 10 minutes and 2 boxes of disks), AutoCAD, Personal Designer, CATIA, CADAM, PDGS, UG/NX, Solid Edge, SolidWorks and a touch of Pro/e.
I have worked in the Siemens Sales channel (15+ years), and the PTC sales channel (1 year) and now I work at Dassault (2 years).
Heck, BobM and I shared Solid Edge stories and I think even OneNote templates for taking design review notes- during my Solid Edge days. I was a Siemens Evangelist for a long time. Then I was asked to try some French champagne instead of German beer (analogy of course. Because I love dark beers!)
I have managed PDM Pro for a multi-site company. Admin for DriveWorks and architected a CPQ system tying Sales CRM, DriveWorks, SolidWorks and PDM Pro together. I have been a PLM admin for a global medical company where we used and implemented Propel PLM. We worked with Propel to develop quite a few unique business workflows that worked with PDM Pro, SAP and Propel.
Cool story bro. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re a sell out and the feces you’re trying to sell smells. Sure.. someone out there likes the smell of it.. all 5 of them. But the rest of us don’t and don’t appreciate someone trying to gaslight (ad nauseum) into thinking it doesn’t.
I’ve seen plenty of “experienced” people’s drawings that look like they were done by a first time computer user that totally achieves the opposite of what a drawing is meant to achieve. Yet they still create them and fool plenty of less informed that they are “designers/draftsmen”.
“I have worked in the Siemens Sales channel (15+ years), and the PTC sales channel (1 year) and now I work at Dassault (2 years).”
And there we have it folks. You’re not a CAD user. You’re a marketing salesman that used CAD applications a long time ago.
“Heck, BobM and I shared Solid Edge stories and I think even OneNote templates for taking design review notes- during my Solid Edge days.”
But sorry to say I’ve never USED OneNote… and I couldn’t tell you what a OneNote Template even is.
However, it is true we were once on the same page, but you’ve moved on to sales, and that tells me everything we need to know about your opinion on these matters… You took a job to SELL the cloud, so just embrace the fact that you’re a sell-out to all the real CAD users. Now there’s nothing wrong with sales, you just need to embrace it. And I’m sure that the folks at Dassault who hired you are happy you’re pimping their non-sense…. that’s what they are paying you for, right? Well those of us using CAD to feed our families, come at this from the other perspective… anything that makes it harder for us cost’s me money and time.
Oh and I have over 30 patents, and many European ones too… so does my opinion mean more now?
Matt-
Interesting logic. But let’s step back a bit here and look at the much bigger picture. How many software products do you use that is still on-premise/desktop bound? How many are critical software products? You might find that you don’t have many that truly on-premise/desktop-bound. Heck, even your platform here is not even on-premise. It’s a cloud tool.
Your MS Office suite is probably cloud.
Your PC OS is probably cloud-updated. Yes, it runs on-premises..for the time being. If you want to look at some interesting products look at Microsofts PC in the cloud. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-365
Times are changin’ and for most cloud is where you are now. You may not realize it but you are.
Trying to hold on to a software business model from the 1990’s in the 2020’s is kinda asking for a lot from a software vendor.
Speaking of vendors. All are pushing you to the cloud. If we talk about Siemens, well, all you hear from them these days is Xcelerator this, Xcelerator that. Teamcenter X, etc. It is all cloud implementations. But their implementation is what is called a “Shift and Lift”. It is NOT- and let me be clear here- it is not cloud-native or cloud-ready. It is cloud “streamed” to use Siemens term. There are only a handful- less than 5 that are cloud-native applications. Those are all based on new acquisitions. Shift and lift means that Siemens is managing an AWS for you and the software is installed there. You access the AWS via a browser. Oh, and you are paying Siemens to manage that AWS too!
PTC is the kinda the same but have more products that they have acquired that are cloud-native- Onshape comes to mind. But Windchill as cloud-native. Nope. Cloud-hosted or on-premise only.
Dassault Systems gambled back in what 2009ish to create a product that runs in the cloud. A product that is a “platform” for design. Now that is different from software for design. Platform! I think some of you have tasted the crumbs of this platform using 3DSWYM “collaboration” tool. This is NOT 3DEXPERIENCE! As I said it is a platform that allows you to run large portions of a business. It is not just CAx and PDM or CAx and PLM. It is a business platform.
Anyway, to wrap this up. All the big 3 CAx providers are really looking at breaking up their tools into smaller chunks (someone mentioned back in the days you had to buy licenses for everything- think like that) called microservices. These microservices are being used to create a new type of software. This is why you are seeing Siemens use token pools for licensing and “weird” licenses for other tools.
I can see a day where Solid Edge and NX are no longer brands..Xcelerator will be the brand and you will purchase microservices for projects. If you want to know more about that take a look at Xcelerator and see how Siemens is breaking things apart. Take a look at the Xcelerator Marketplace and how it is structured and laid out for the customer. Buy one seat of something and you get Teamcenter Share and 10 licenses- this includes guest licensing.
It’s just not the same game anymore.
I’m so tired of hearing about everything on the “cloud” and how that’s the future… how many years now?
When we can run FAIR elections without corrupted hack-able Computer systems… or the FBI and CIA aren’t funding social media to cover-up and corrupt the news for politicians, I’ll think about trusting my CAD data in the Cloud. It’s especially risky today since the US has changed it’s Patent system to satisfy the NWO by making it a “first to apply” from the tried and true “first to invent” process.
Putting your data in the cloud is just setting yourself up for extortion later on when you want to take back what’s yours. And anyone or company promoting this is are only interested in their bottom line.
Those of us who grew up typing code into terminals attached to mainframes understand the freedom that the then-new desktop computer presented us: no more paying for every minute of CPU time and for every print job.
Some software runs better on shared servers as “Walking the 3rd rail” intuits, such as a blog that is meant to be shared; other software runs best on local computers, such as a word processor preparing documents that are not meant to be shared in real-time — or at all.
Reverting to the old client-server paradigm is, in some aspects, a convenience for some customers (such as when sharing is appropriate), but the greater aspect is that the renewal of the old technology is about customer lock-in, plus some customer surveillance thrown in as a bonus. It is, in fact, the same game evermore.
Microservices will result in macro confusion, and over-billing.
Being enthusiastic about one niche of technology does not make it inevitable, as SBF has amply illustrated. What is inevitable is technology that works for the common man, and that is technology that takes a bit from here and a bit from there, so that it makes sense for users, each of whom are unique in their needs.
Big CAD vendors can be content with their big customers. For the bulk of CAD users, the one- and two-man shop, the permanent license represents future financial stability.
Are you sure you don’t want credit some people with your posting? Sure sounds really, really familar to me… 🙂 If not, then let’s say we think a lot alike.
But you are correct. Siemens products are file-based tools. The 3DEXPERIENCE is a platform built on a unified data model. So the data can be quickly accessed and used in other apps on the platform. Now people might say that is a “closed” system. That would be far from the truth. Siemens products are more closed if you really want to dig down into the nuts and bolts. Being a platform you also have connections. Being a platform you have data analytics, etc.
Yes, it is a cloud platform. It as cloud security. It actually has higher security than Siemens products. Yes that is a fact.
Interesting that when we switched away from NX (or UG as it was) in the early 00’s it was partly because of the number of additional licenses you needed to buy for basic funtionality (UGOpen just to open files, a seperate license to work on assemblies, etc…) whereas SolidWorks had everything you needed bundled in a cheaper package. From your article it appears that 20 years on Siemens have realised they need to keep the customer happy, whereas DS are counting on customer inertia to maximise profits. What goes around comes around.
Ultimately Dassault will follow the money like any corporation. If this “push” to the cloud and slow down of developing DesktopWorks starts affecting the bottom line too much, then they will switch gears. They can only dump money into a losing proposition so long before investors start getting antsy.
Are you going to let them decide when it’s time for you to change and what you have to change to? I’m just saying that you have the power to decide your own destiny to some extent. Don’t allow them to drive the decision. You can see you are going to have to make a choice, and you can control the timing instead of being forced into something. Being forced into a 4 year commitment sounds like a red flag to me.
Matt,
Very well put… It’s funny when I was making my decision to either go with SW or Solid Edge, the main reason for my decision back in the late 90’s was that Solid Edge was purchased by UGS from Intergraph which used the Parasolid KERNEL, whereas SW licensed it. I had been using Personal Designer from Computervision, but when they were bought by PTC they let the PD die on the vine, while trying to convince users to go with Pro-Engineer. But Pro-E seemed to be nothing more then a document tool sold to upper management for ridiculous amounts of money. So since I was the “user” and “upper management” I needed be sure what I was buying in to. And after being burned once by PTC, I was very suspicious of SW life span after it was purchased by Dassualt in ’97. I believed the purchase was for the customers not the product as with the PTC purchase of PD. My guess is they’re simple dragging it out in the hope that new customers won’t really care and old ones like us they don’t much need anymore.
So back in 1999 I made the right decision. Having used Solid Edge since V6 I’ve never regretted my decision. And like you, I believe Synchronous Tech is possibly the best thing that’s ever happened to Parametric Modelling in the past 20 years… to bad so many dismiss it because they’re so stuck in their History Tree ways to give it a honest try.
Bob
While it is the end of an era, from which we benefitted, there are, fortunately, alternatives to grouchy CAD vendors who put profits before customers.
There’s nothing wrong with maximizing profits, but alienating customers, which results in driving them to your competitor, is not a good way to achieve that goal.